Old man rambling

Cimeries · Post by **Cimeries** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:48 pm

Does anyone else find themselves missing that old special feel Egoboo used to have? If you've played one of the ancient versions you know what I mean, it's this special atmosphere everything used to have. Playing Egoboo used to be fun and mysterious back when the menu was just a black list of modules with those ugly yellow borders.
I remember everything seemed to be coming to life, and Egoboo seemed like a real world with a real story behind it (even if it didn't actually present anything).
Maybe it's because I'm a veteran and I already know everything there is, maybe it's because I can look at something in the game and understand its technicalities, maybe it's because we change old things too much as we develop Egoboo, but it just doesn't seem like that old Egoboo I used to play when I was a kid. It feels like we've lost something somewhere along the way. The mood isn't right anymore.

Thoughts?

Agent of Dread · Post by **Agent of Dread** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:57 pm

I have been thinking the exact same thing.
I mean, what we have now is fantastic, but the modules, the voices, the stuff, it all just doesn't have that flair which drove me into giving every character 4 sporks in 2.22.

Post by **Zefz** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:03 pm

The game is much more umm... intuitive to play now. It isn't as cryptic as mysterious as before because we have proper game menus and explanations on what happens. The fact that you know all the clockwork of how everything works does of course not help either

What I think is a important factor is the fact that over half the modules have been made by me! Old Egoboo had 8 or so modules, while 2.8.0 has 33! (and 21 of those were made by me). It could be that my style of dungeons and RPG atmosphere isn't the same as Aarons. I think I have a much more serious RPG (true monsters and less silly monster, real blood gritty dungeons and evil demons and overly dramatic effects and story).

Cimeries · Post by **Cimeries** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:18 pm

As odd as it may seem, I thought the old modules we more serious and deep.

Right now, Egoboo feels... lackluster and choppy.

I think all of these new menus have something to do with it. The most notable thing that comes to mind right now is the Negatori font. Somehow it just doesn't feel right to me, personally. Maybe we could experiment with some others?

Dark · Post by **Dark** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:59 am

I also played the old Egoboo.

Personally I really like the new versions. It might be that I have not yet learned all about it and theres still some mystery for me in it.
The only thing I dont really like is the world map concept. I prefer to be able to just select any module and play it with any character without limits or the need to walk from place to place.
Thats not just cos Im lazy to do it though. I think that this non-linear modules system was something unusuall for an RPG. Even something specific for Egoboo.

I do miss one thing when comparing new version with the old Egoboo. I think the game is easier now.
Probably its just that I was much younger when I played it first time. Back then I couldnt even beat some of the palaces because I didnt know what to do.
It all had a kind of a mysterious feel to it... I knew there was some way that I just have to figure out.
Also the enemies... I really had problems with them what built up the excitement. I kept looking for various ways to defeat/avoid enemies instead of simple kill.

Id really like it if the modules were harder to beat. Now it is really easy for me to just wipe out all the enemies, figure out puzzles etc.
I like that there are various tricky ways to do things in Egoboo... You dont always have to kill the enemies becuase you often can just outsmart them.
The thing is usually just killing is easier than outsmarting... Theres not much need for it.

I think Egoboo would be much more exciting if enemies were tougher. If killing them wasnt easy or even possible. Youd have to look for a way to survive instead of just going and killing whats on your path.
Also the puzzles could be harder. Id use more riddles in Egoboo, e.g. like the one with Archeologist.
Addiotionally Id use non-linearity of Egoboo. You dont have to finish modules one by one but you can just pick the one you like and play it.
There could be e.g. riddles that would require you to bring an item from one module to another. This could be hard to figure out and would also add up the mysterious athmosphere making you find many strange items youd wonder how to use.

Seanbot · Post by **Seanbot** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:44 am

Maybe it lost it's mysteriousness when you played all the levels, and remember the layouts.
Just maybe...

Post by **Zefz** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:16 am

Maybe setting the difficulty to Hard would help if things get too easy?

Cimeries · Post by **Cimeries** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:46 am

I actually really like the idea of morbidly powerful enemies. In the old Egoboo players could only advance to level 6 and had no skills. A player was actually often weaker than most of his foes.

We need to make the monsters more powerful so that they are about equal in power to the average player and thus skill is the only advantage you have over the computer.
And see, I'm not talking just about stats. Monsters should have better resources at their disposal ; More ammo, better weapons, better tactics, maybe even some enchanted items, magic equipment, passive skills, potions...

Post by **Zefz** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:23 am

I think most of my work progresses produces harder and harder monsters. Abyss 2.. Daemon Lord.... Dracolich... my new module where a monster deals damage to your int instead of hp (0 INT = dead).

Maybe it is the extra skills that makes the game unbalanced (Weapon Mastery or Critical Strike or Groggy Strike), because Clonkinator went through every player stat and rebalanced them. He also rebalanced every weapon in the game to deal more appropriate strength bonus damage.

Agent of Dread · Post by **Agent of Dread** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:39 am

I was thinking, when I get the better of puberty and get some initiative, maybe I (and of course, other people) could do like an alternate Egoboo starting from 2.22, where we would y'know, make it have the same kind of feel to it.
But I'm still supporting this project to the full.

Seanbot · Post by **Seanbot** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:39 am

Oh hohohoho.
You have not hit the bumpy part of puberty yet.

Cimeries · Post by **Cimeries** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:10 am

Agent of Dread wrote:I was thinking, when I get the better of puberty and get some initiative, maybe I (and of course, other people) could do like an alternate Egoboo starting from 2.22, where we would y'know, make it have the same kind of feel to it.
But I'm still supporting this project to the full.

Denis? Is that you?

Agent of Dread · Post by **Agent of Dread** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:30 am

I do believe that's another post of epic proportions.

But seriously, the idea has a little merit... I think...

...Hey, at least I don't wanna sell it.

Dark · Post by **Dark** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:37 am

Zefz wrote:Maybe setting the difficulty to Hard would help if things get too easy?

I didnt know Egoboo has difficulty settings... Perhaps its cos Im staying a bit behind still playing 2.6.8. ( I got all chars in it so its a pity to loose them. )

Sorry for repeating myself but Id like to get some attention to it.

What do you guys think of the module-to-module quest items?

In my opinion making such quests common in Egoboo would make the game much more interesting.
For example in modules there would be special secret treasure rooms which to unlock would require a specific item from elsewhere.
Youd also end up finding strange items in modules or shops.
There could be little tips to what goes where so the player would end up having to figure it out on his own.

Puzzles that are fully contained in a single module are easy to solve.
You just need to carefully check whole module and you will probably figure out everything with no problems.

Also I think some items are too good to be found just by completing a module.
Making them harder to obtain would make them much more valuable.
This could also help preserve the old feel of Egoboo where you valued every item you could find.

Post by **Zefz** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:41 am

I also think it's a cool idea. It might even fit into the module I am making now. When I'm finished with the first level, try it out. I think it's turning out pretty great.

If we want to make items more valuable, we need to know which items you are referring to and how you suggest we make them more valuable. The Rogue Starter for example has a very powerful knife called the 'Insicor' and 'The Bait' is also very easy to get pretty early in the game.