Rock music, Religion, and Fanaticism

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woodmouse
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Rock music, Religion, and Fanaticism

Post by woodmouse »

Cimeries wrote:
PurpleSquerkle wrote:e.g.: Rock music was invented by Satan.

Rock music is the indirect work of god. He made Satan after all. ^^

Did he? :o
...I thought Satan was before God.
...Well, anyway.. Um... Bible school sounds scary because... well... religious people are scary. :lol:

And rock music made by Satan? :o
That's.. like.. ROCK music? Wait till they'd hear black metal.
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Post by PurpleSquerkle »

woodmouse wrote:
Cimeries wrote:
PurpleSquerkle wrote:e.g.: Rock music was invented by Satan.

Rock music is the indirect work of god. He made Satan after all. ^^

Did he? :o
...I thought Satan was before God.

Nope.
I actually don't know of any group of people who believe Satan came first... and that includes Satanists!
Given the multitude of thoughts out there, though, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that somewhere there are people who say that.

Cimeries wrote:
PurpleSquerkle wrote:e.g.: Rock music was invented by Satan.

Rock music is the indirect work of god. He made Satan after all. ^^

Seriously, though, that's close to one of my biggest arguments against the idea: Satan doesn't invent; he corrupts.


woodmouse wrote:...Well, anyway.. Um... Bible school sounds scary because... well... religious people are scary. :lol:

Well, am I scary?
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Post by octagon »

Many things that were caused by religion are horrible... murders, abuse of rights by church authorities, "crusades", overall fanatism...
But many, many good things were caused by religion, too. Faith can give people hope and inspire them for wonderful actions that make the world a better place.
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Post by Cimeries »

The problem is organized religion, not religion in and of itself.
It's supposed to be a private thing.
:wink:
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Post by octagon »

:agree:. Fully agree.
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Post by penguinflyer2222 »

@woody: über religious people are scary.
Edit: weel, I meant something different than that or something... so I'll just be quiet now because I have nothing to say. lol
Last edited by penguinflyer2222 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
......
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Post by PurpleSquerkle »

octagon wrote:Many things that were caused by religion are horrible... murders, abuse of rights by church authorities, "crusades", overall fanatism...


done in the name of ≠ caused by

I don't like having to take responsibility for stupid things people did in the name of something I also stand for.
As an example that might be more relatable-
I'm white, and white people have done some horrible things when organized among themselves (the KKK and such). I rarely get "you're white, so you're a racist"... but when it does happen, it's aggravating.

Organization is not the problem. Organized Christians have done positive things, too (charities, orphanages, etc.). The problem is hypocrisy. Any group of people is going to have hypocrites, and when you get a bunch of them together and they do something revolting, it naturally does reflect on the image of the group as a whole. But my hope is that sensible people (and you guys are all pretty sensible people) will be able to see what is actually going on, which is, as I said before... mostly just hypocrisy.

Obviously, then, I don't think the problem is being "überreligious", either. This is about what I believe; my worldview; how I see everything. It has a dramatic impact on every part of my life. As long as we concede to "religious" not meaning some negative things it often implies (e.g. the idea of blindness, as if I have not actually thought this through and am being unreasonable or ignorant), I will proudly label myself as überreligious.
The problem with people who do things like going around and killing others in the name of a belief system that doesn't specifically teach that others should be killed isn't that those people are "too religious". It's that they are heavily misguided. If, on the other hand, their religion does teach indiscriminate killing, well... what they believe is pretty stupid, then. Granted, usually these people do sincerely believe that their targets deserve death, but usually the reason for that is something horrible like "they don't agree with me". Wouldn't it be better to try to convince them rationally instead of giving up immediately and taking away any change you had at changing their minds by ending their lives? Anyway, again, what we're talking about is either:
A) People who believe something that is just inherently messed up
or
B) People who claim to act based on a system of beliefs and are actually doing something that the system does not teach at all.



Closing thought:
If one snake bites you, it wouldn't be unreasonable if you became afraid of snakes. So the fear of "religious people" based on past experiences does make sense, but it's still unfortunate.




...This could probably turn into a whole lengthy discussion, though. I thought I was leaving! :P
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Post by Cimeries »

PurpleSquerkle wrote:...This could probably turn into a whole lengthy discussion, though. I thought I was leaving! :P

Oh, rest assured, it will.

The reason why I think organized religion is a problem is because it bestows authority to people that aren't always qualified to have it. (and don't tell me that it's no longer valid. Priests, Rabbis and other people of religious rank may not have any political power anymore, but they're still community leaders, and they still influence the thoughts of others).
When you give authority to someone, they will abuse it. The extent of how much is entirely dependent on how sensible they are, and being sensible is rare when you're under the impression that your belief system is superior to others.

I'm sure that, as Purple said, these people believed they were acting for the greater good, but were they not organized, they would have been more tolerant of others because it would be far easier for them to accept that all beliefs are equal.
(And if the notion that all beliefs are equal upsets you, even in the slightest, you may need to do some more personal reflection of your own and see why you feel that way. I know I once felt that all religion is stupid and that complete atheism is the only reasonable choice. Fortunately, that's no longer true.)

It's simple flock behavior, an evolutionary mechanism: alienate the other to increase your group's chance of survival. Behaving like flock is behaving primitively.
Everyone is racist and xenophobic subconsciously, whether they like it or not, as it is human nature. But that's not what matters, what matters is that you don't behave in this manner, and that's all that counts.

And for some fun reading, here's a little anecdote as an example of how much organized religion can affect a person's life even if they're not attached to it in any way: You may or may not know, but I have a middle name, it's Nethaniel (literally meaning: God-given). I only got it recently (a few years ago), because a rabbi whom I've never met told my parents (whom they've also never met before that) that my birth name doesn't suit me, and they of course went ahead and added it to my records under his "recommendation" without my consultation. In my records it is actually listed as my first name, with my original name, Ben, becoming the middle name.
Now, my family is a very secular one. My father believes in god, but we both agree that if a god exists then he is nothing like the bible describes it. Ergo, we don't care for religious customs, and everyone in my family believes a different thing. And yet here I am, a secular person with secular parents and an Uberreligious name that I never wanted and had no say in. That's how much religion can affect your life even if you have no part in it.
And to this day my parents refuse to remove it, even though they've never once called me by this name. I will have to wait for one more year until I turn 18 and am able to change it myself, which will create all sorts of problems for me seeing how I am being drafted next year and there will be a lot of name-related mishaps with the army over this.
So keep that in mind.
:wink:
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Post by Agent of Dread »

tl;dr
- Linktree: linktr.ee/trilbs -
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Post by Cimeries »

tb;yai
:wink:
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Post by Maxaxle »

Religion isn't a problem; fanatics are.
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Post by woodmouse »

Well, not all religious people are scary, but... most of those who I know are.

And.. Um.

Religion is.

...And yea, that last sentence meant.
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Re: Religious people are scary

Post by woodmouse »

I bumped into a scary religious person on omegle. At first it was just talking about how I don't like religious people, and how she was so über religious, so then she tried to convince me that I'm going to heaven (to which I said that I don't even want to) and that discussion lasted like forever, she kept saying that god will put me in heaven just to make me unhappy. I was a bit confused and asked what he does to people who want to go there, and she said they have to fight for their places... doesn't really make sense. :P So then I said that if I'd get the choices to either not be able to do anything, or get it easily by selling my soul to Satan, I'd do it, she was like "NO!!! SATAN WILL F**K YOU IN THE ASS IN HELL!!!" I was like "eh... I'm pretty sure he wouldn't" and she kept arguing that homosexuality is horrifying, etc. and I agreed, so then I asked if it changes anything that I'm straight, she was like "NO!!! You're going to Hell!!!" I was a bit more confused ...and the discussion lasted forever. Then I got annoyed and just said I'm going to the toilet and disconnected. :lol:

But I mean... seriously. So basically gays go to hell, straight men go to hell if they don't like gays. But if they'd rather want to go in hell than heaven, they're forced to go to heaven. :roll: The world makes perfect sense now. :lol:
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Re: Religious people are scary

Post by Cimeries »

woodmouse wrote:she kept saying that god will put me in heaven just to make me unhappy.
God isn't very clever then...
:wink:
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Re: Religious people are scary

Post by bgbirdsey »

This topic comes close to violating the terms of service, plus it is s divisive issue that does not serve the purpose expanding the egoboo community.
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