Beta Testing 2.6.9

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Cimeries
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Post by Cimeries »

Zefz wrote:New binary:
http://www.2shared.com/file/4681047/7b3 ... RY-15.html

Contains the new various source fixes and changes the last 10 revisions or so. Also has the IfTargetIsOwner function that chainsaw requested :P


Thank you. :)

Ehem... Since we're already discussing script funtions and the SVN, screw pms;
I was hoping you could add another function. (I know, I'm a nag, but It's a useful one and I'm sure you would have created it at some point anyway.)
I need a function that adds IDSZ expansions to objects, pefrerably on a target basis, since it's the most useful one.
Something along the lines of:

Code: Select all

tmpargument = [POIS]
GiveExpansionToTarget

I tried asking birsey via pm, but he didn't reply, maybe he forgot, or maybe I just scared him :D
:wink:
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Post by Shade »

Alright, what about this:

Code: Select all

Ratings:

 ~ Modules ~

The Crypt         : ****       (+1)
Abyss Part 1      : *******    (--)
Benemo Cave       : ******     (--)
Forgotten Fortress: ****       (--)
Ash Palace        : ****       (--)
Zippy Village     : -          (-1)
Shadow Palace     : ****       (-1)
Knife's Heist     : *****      (+2)
Water Palace      : *****      (+1)
Sand Palace       : ***        (-1)
Griffin Tower     : *****      (--)
Fire Domain       : -          (-3)
Bishopia          : -          (-1)
Catacombs Level 1 : ******     (+1)
Catacombs Level 2 : ******     (+1)
Ice Palace        : ****       (--)
Abyss Part 2      : ********** (--)

 ~ Starters ~

Soldier           : ***        (--)
G'nome            : **         (-2)
Elf               : **         (--)
Zombi             : ****       (+1)
Paladin           : ***        (--)
Rogue             : ****       (--)
Adventurer        : **         (--)
Archeologist      : *****      (--)
Healer            : ***        (--)
Wizard            : *****      (+2)



Character Stat Gains:
([Class] means the stat gains the class originally had, for comparison.)
(The starting stats should remain unchanged; maybe the initial mana return
 could be boosted a bit to compensate for the non-existant increase in it)
(Also, I should note that I never played as an archeologist or zombi yet.
 ...outside of their starters, that is.)

Class____________Life_____Mana_____MP-R.____Flow_____STR______WIS______INT______DEX

[Adventurer]    1.0-2.0  1.0-2.0   0.3      0.9     1.0-2.0  1.0-2.0  1.0-2.0  1.0-2.0
Adventurer      0.7-1.3  0.6-1.2   0.0      0.7     0.6-1.2  0.6-1.2  0.6-1.2  0.6-1.2

[Archeologist]  1.0-2.0                             1.0-2.0   1.0     1.0-2.0  1.0-2.0
Archeologist    0.7-1.3                             0.7-1.3  0.4-0.9  0.5-1.0  0.7-1.3

[Elf]           0.0-1.0  0.0-1.0   1.0      1.0      0.0     0.0-2.0  1.0-3.0  1.0-3.0
Elf             0.0-0.7  0.0-0.7   0.8      0.8      0.0     0.0-1.2  0.8-2.0  0.8-2.0

[G'nome]        2.0-3.0                              1.0     0.0-1.0  1.0-2.0  1.0-2.0
G'nome          1.5-2.0                              0.7     0.0-0.5  0.8-1.6  0.8-1.6

[Healer]        1.0-2.0  2.0-2.5   1.0      1.0     0.0-1.0  1.0-4.0  0.0-1.0  1.0-2.0
Healer          0.5-1.0  1.2-1.6   0.0      0.8     0.0-0.8  1.0-2.0  0.0-0.7  0.7-1.4

[Paladin]       1.0-2.0  1.25-1.5  0.25     0.5     1.0-2.0  1.0-3.0  0.0-1.0   0.0
Paladin         0.8-1.5  0.6-1.0   0.0      0.4     0.7-1.5  0.9-1.7  0.0-0.5   0.0

[Rogue]         1.0-2.0                             0.0-1.0   0.0     1.0-2.0  2.0-3.0
Rogue           0.6-1.2                             0.0-0.7   0.0     0.8-1.5  1.5-2.0

[Soldier]       2.0-3.0                             2.0-4.0  0.0-1.0   0.0     1.0-2.0
Soldier         1.2-1.8                             1.6-2.2  0.0-0.8   0.0     0.8-1.5

[Wizard]         1.0     2.0-3.0   0.5      1.25    0.0-1.0  1.0-2.0  2.0-3.0  0.0-1.0
Wizard          0.4-0.9  1.5-2.1   0.0      1.0     0.0-0.5  0.8-1.6  1.5-2.0  0.0-0.7

[Zombi]         1.5-2.5                             1.0-2.0  0.0-1.0   0.5      1.0
Zombi           0.9-1.7                             0.6-1.6  0.0-0.5  0.0-0.5  0.4-0.9


If everyone thinks it looks okay, I'll do the changes and upload them to the SVN. It will most likely need a lot of testing though; more stat changes will probably have to be done. Every class should be tested; the EXP cheat, however, probably will suffice to level the character up to level 5, 10, 15 and 20 and see if the stats are good or not.



EDIT: Updated.
EDIT: Updated yet again.
Last edited by Shade on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PurpleSquerkle
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Post by PurpleSquerkle »

Most of that list looks OK, but the water palace is not that hard. You have it ranked higher than palaces that come after it, and it's one of the easiest palaces in my opinion (I think its position as second palace is good).
Also, I would take one asterisk off the Zombi starter; I haven't played it recently but last I knew it wasn't very difficult.

Oh, and I think you decreased some of the stat gains a little too much.
See my earlier post for reasoning...


Chainsaw wrote:Ehem... Since we're already discussing script funtions and the SVN, screw pms;
I was hoping you could add another function. (I know, I'm a nag, but It's a useful one and I'm sure you would have created it at some point anyway.)
I need a function that adds IDSZ expansions to objects, pefrerably on a target basis, since it's the most useful one.
Something along the lines of:

Code: Select all

tmpargument = [POIS]
GiveExpansionToTarget

I tried asking birsey via pm, but he didn't reply, maybe he forgot, or maybe I just scared him :D

That would indeed be a useful function.


As long as we're recommending new features, I was thinking that it might be useful to make blood particles global, because they use up a lot of unnecessary particle slot space. Plus, for things like the Bloodthirsty Squirrel, you have to either make everything bleed red (what it does right now), or make it determine the blood type by the monster type (like the Vampyre does), which uses up a ton of particle slots and doesn't work right all the time (since not all bugs will necessarily bleed green and such).
Another solution I thought of is checking for skills instead and giving every monster an extra skill ID, now that the new skill system is working... So that they'd all have an ID showing what type of blood (or bones, or whatever they should spawn) the monster has.
This still doesn't solve the particle limit issues, though, so even though it might take a lot of work, it might be a good idea to globalize them...
Then the current "blood type" thing in data.txt can reference global particles.
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Post by Shade »

PurpleSquerkle wrote:Most of that list looks OK, but the water palace is not that hard. You have it ranked higher than palaces that come after it, and it's one of the easiest palaces in my opinion (I think its position as second palace is good).
Also, I would take one asterisk off the Zombi starter; I haven't played it recently but last I knew it wasn't very difficult.

The water palace is damn hard in my opinion, or at least it is for any class I frequently play as (adventurer, rogue, elf). The trogs hurt a bunch, and the whole thing is next to impossible to beat without a good stack of life potions, which is hard to get early on, which is why it also is my least favourite module in the whole game. And it remains very hard even for high level characters. (...unless you put on strider shoes, maybe, but that's very special equipment that you'd never need for other palaces, and the modules should be rated for their general difficulty, not for their difficulty if conditions x and y are given.)
Well, feel free to disagree anyway.
Also, maybe you're right about the zombi starter. The level itself is very easy, but I never managed to beat it yet - mostly because of the insane boss battle at the end. Those holy dudes OHKO Zombor even at full health, and respawning is not very useful since you lose your sources of light that way. That's why I decided to give it a 5 star ranking.

PurpleSquerkle wrote:Oh, and I think you decreased some of the stat gains a little too much.
See my earlier post for reasoning...

Well, we'll see what the others think about it. If everyone dislikes those stats, I'll try to rebalance them yet again.
(However, look at the soldier's STR gain, for example... With his current 2-4, he can gain up to 96 STR at level 20! Also, as I already said, the starting stats would remain unchanged.)
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Post by Cimeries »

Code: Select all

SCRIPT ERROR: modules\archer.mod\objects\enchantweaponscroll.obj\script.txt - IfTargetIsOwner undefined
:?
:wink:
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Post by PurpleSquerkle »

Clonkinator wrote:The water palace is damn hard in my opinion, or at least it is for any class I frequently play as (adventurer, rogue, elf). The trogs hurt a bunch, and the whole thing is next to impossible to beat without a good stack of life potions, which is hard to get early on, which is why it also is my least favourite module in the whole game. And it remains very hard even for high level characters. (...unless you put on strider shoes, maybe, but that's very special equipment that you'd never need for other palaces, and the modules should be rated for their general difficulty, not for their difficulty if conditions x and y are given.)
Well, feel free to disagree anyway.

I do disagree. :?
I've been playing with heavy hitters (Zombie, Paladin, Archaeologist) lately, but I used to play with Rogues quite a bit and I don't remember ever having that much trouble. The Trogs are easy; to kill them you just have to be out of range of their spears. Use magic or ranged weapons, or if you're a Soldier or something, get a good heavy weapon and move in really close, killing them before they have time to reposition themselves so they can stab you.
I always take out the crossbow wielders first so that I don't get shot at too much...
Anyway, I'm going to start either a Rogue or a weakling like the Elf some time soon; I think I've done enough Paladining for now (I still want to finish the Abyss with this guy, though; I'm going to try that soonish).
I'll let you know if anything changes for me....
Clonkinator wrote:Also, maybe you're right about the zombi starter. The level itself is very easy, but I never managed to beat it yet - mostly because of the insane boss battle at the end. Those holy dudes OHKO Zombor even at full health, and respawning is not very useful since you lose your sources of light that way. That's why I decided to give it a 5 star ranking.

Huh. I don't find the fight that difficult. Just hit everyone a lot.

Clonkinator wrote:Well, we'll see what the others think about it. If everyone dislikes those stats, I'll try to rebalance them yet again.
(However, look at the soldier's STR gain, for example... With his current 2-4, he can gain up to 96 STR at level 20! Also, as I already said, the starting stats would remain unchanged.)


I guess, but you have to realize that, as I said before, level 6 is still the "normal high level". It takes quite a bit of work to get to level 20 (I certainly haven't done it yet). :?
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Post by Shade »

PurpleSquerkle wrote:
Clonkinator wrote:The water palace is damn hard in my opinion, or at least it is for any class I frequently play as (adventurer, rogue, elf). The trogs hurt a bunch, and the whole thing is next to impossible to beat without a good stack of life potions, which is hard to get early on, which is why it also is my least favourite module in the whole game. And it remains very hard even for high level characters. (...unless you put on strider shoes, maybe, but that's very special equipment that you'd never need for other palaces, and the modules should be rated for their general difficulty, not for their difficulty if conditions x and y are given.)
Well, feel free to disagree anyway.

I do disagree. :?
I've been playing with heavy hitters (Zombie, Paladin, Archaeologist) lately, but I used to play with Rogues quite a bit and I don't remember ever having that much trouble. The Trogs are easy; to kill them you just have to be out of range of their spears. Use magic or ranged weapons, or if you're a Soldier or something, get a good heavy weapon and move in really close, killing them before they have time to reposition themselves so they can stab you.
I always take out the crossbow wielders first so that I don't get shot at too much...
Anyway, I'm going to start either a Rogue or a weakling like the Elf some time soon; I think I've done enough Paladining for now (I still want to finish the Abyss with this guy, though; I'm going to try that soonish).
I'll let you know if anything changes for me....

Well, maybe you have some secret trick against the trogs or something, but taking them out without suffering loads of damage is impossible to me without being vastly overpowered (or having a wand of lightning ready). And, sadly, at this point in the game, you aren't vastly overpowered. Unless you spent like 10 hours in the sand palace squishing tranches for EXP. The main problem there simply is the lack of life potions and the need of a source of light if you want to actually see something.

PurpleSquerkle wrote:
Clonkinator wrote:Also, maybe you're right about the zombi starter. The level itself is very easy, but I never managed to beat it yet - mostly because of the insane boss battle at the end. Those holy dudes OHKO Zombor even at full health, and respawning is not very useful since you lose your sources of light that way. That's why I decided to give it a 5 star ranking.

Huh. I don't find the fight that difficult. Just hit everyone a lot.

Hitting everyone a lot is pretty hard if they have a OHKOing attack with a much greater range than any of your own attacks.

PurpleSquerkle wrote:
Clonkinator wrote:Well, we'll see what the others think about it. If everyone dislikes those stats, I'll try to rebalance them yet again.
(However, look at the soldier's STR gain, for example... With his current 2-4, he can gain up to 96 STR at level 20! Also, as I already said, the starting stats would remain unchanged.)


I guess, but you have to realize that, as I said before, level 6 is still the "normal high level". It takes quite a bit of work to get to level 20 (I certainly haven't done it yet). :?

This might be true, but it's not like the stats would be that drastically lower than before at Lv6, as, as I already said, the starting stats should remain unchanged, only the growth is somewhat reduced. And just "Level 6 is still the normal high level" doesn't really justify having like 70 HP and 96 STR at Lv20, even though it may be a ridiculously high level. Really.
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Post by PurpleSquerkle »

Ehh, you do have a point.

Anyway, maybe I need to check out the Zombi starter again, too; I've done it several times but it's been a while....
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Post by Cimeries »

Clonkinator wrote:and respawning is not very useful since you lose your sources of light that way.

As with the adventurer starter. :-_-:
Really, that's no reason to beef up the ratings, especially since you're always accompanied by the mage and a posse of other zombies until the final part, you can very well let them help you.
:wink:
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Post by Shade »

Chainsaw wrote:
Clonkinator wrote:and respawning is not very useful since you lose your sources of light that way.

As with the adventurer starter. :-_-:
Really, that's no reason to beef up the ratings, especially since you're always accompanied by the mage and a posse of other zombies until the final part, you can very well let them help you.

But the adventurer starter is ridiculously easy compared to the Zombi one. It's very hard to even get close to dying there, especially if you have Mim around.
Also, letting the other zombis do the work won't work, they get OHKOed just as easily as Zombor himself, and if your master dies before you kill the holy dudes, you lose as well (without a possibility to respawn). Not to mention the fight against your master after that; some warlock-like dude who likes to spam storms at you isn't exactly an easy enemy to deal with.
As I said, maybe 5 stars is a little too much as the rest of the module is pretty easy if you hold back a little, but everything lower than 4 stars simply wouldn't be true. It is certainly harder than stuff like the healer starter or the sand palace, for example, which are both rated three stars with my new rating.
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Post by PurpleSquerkle »

I just said -1 * would probably be good.
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Post by Zefz »

@clonks: Niice :D Exactly how I imagined it.

@chainsaw: I forgot to submit my changes to basicdat/aicodes.txt
I'll commit it to the SVN if I haven't already.

And I have been thinking about adding the AddIDSZToTarget function a long time. But it will require some work and some hard coded expansion reading. This means it will check for certain predefined expansions like [POIS], [JOUS] or [WMAG]. If it isn't a legal expansion, the function will fail (or if the target already has the expansion). You can't use this function to add new non-existing expansions.
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Post by Cimeries »

Gave Moggy and Meena (m&m?) map blips.
:wink:
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Post by Zefz »

Good.

Now I forgot to mention my ideas about the global particles. I was thinking to implement that looong ago (ever since I made the coin particles global). I also thought I could make certain other particles global, such as SMOKE, FIRE and the like. Instead of tmpargument = 5, you could use tmpargument = REDBLOOD (same in data.txt instead of referencing to a part*.txt)

But bloodtypes are most important right now. I think we have 5 blood types:
REDBLOOD
BLUEBLOOD
GREENBLOOD
ORANGEBLOOD (never used yet? - except for rust)
BONES
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Post by woodmouse »

Hmm, about the level ratings. I think Catacombs 1 is WAAY much harder than Catacombs 2... I'm not sure if other think so, but well.
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