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 Post subject: EGOBOO -- Another editor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Tome Mimic (Module Baker)
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Hi all

The basic framework is done. It includes:
- Loading map
- Saving map
- Drawing and viewing the map in 3D
- View-Modes: Wireframe, Solid and Textured
- Display of map in 2D including field of view of camera

That's what is planned:
- Merge in the map editor code from Cartman-GL
- Display spawn points and passages on map

This editor works in '2D-Mode'. Which means, the input is done in a 2D-Map and the result displayed in a 3D-Window.

What I need is some input, what functionality users want to have implemented first.
- Please add names for menu points
- What is better: Building walls on a flat map or carving out a maze from 'full' ?


Thanks for your help.

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Last edited by bitnapper on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
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That is great! Thank you for putting effort into another Egoboo module creator... I'll try the editor as soon as possible...

Bitnapper wrote:
- What is better: Building walls on a flat map or carving out a maze from 'full' ?

I think I'd like the former better, but right now, most (dungeon) maps of Egoboo maps (Department of Redundancy department, yay!) are more like carved-out mazes, so I could imagine that the latter method is more useful.

So possibly, the latter method could be more important, but anyway, it should get both.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:05 pm 
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Queen Penguin (Senior Member)
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I think the latter is more useful, too.
It would be a pain to draw all those walls. Consider the size of the map vs. how much wall space there is....
And octagon is right.. I think they are mostly carved out mazes because that is the setup for EgoMap, and because that's just how Egoboo is. :lol:
But even if you want the former, just drag the thing across to make it floor..... or maybe there should be a button for that? To change it from floor to wall? Either that, or a preference when you make a new module.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
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:agree:. Fully.


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 Post subject: Update on ToDo-List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:10 pm 
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Tome Mimic (Module Baker)
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Map Menu
- New Flat (to build walls on)
- New Solid (to carve out)

Questions:
'Fan'-Styles
- Should there be a 'preset' style ?
- Should it be possible to read them from file ?

Examples for styles:
- Vertical walls, flat bottom
- 'Egobooish' walls (e. g. like in adventurer module)
- Other ?

Basic idea for map generation
First a 'simple' mode which only allows walls and floors. Wall edges are set automagically. This needs 'preset' shapes for the wall-fans.
In 'standard' mode, any kind of fan-type can be positioned anywhere.

Other thoughts ? How would you work ? :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Squirrel Knight (Administrator)
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The wall/floor mode in EgoMap is almost anything I use.

Object mode is buggy so I usually do that manually.
Abillity to draw multiple tile flags would be great! (flag an entire section as "water" for example)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
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Quote:
- Should there be a 'preset' style ?
- Should it be possible to read them from file ?


I think this would be handy and nice.

Preset style: Egobooish, I suggest.

Other possible styles:
-Everything "curly" 'n stuff; hemispherical/hemicylindrical walls - could be nice for sand dunes and ...weird places.
-Hard and splintery rock/crystal walls
-ship-style walls in a trapezoid shape - see G'nome starter

Dunno if any of them are possible, but those would look cool.


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 Post subject: Update on ToDo List
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:32 am 
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Tome Mimic (Module Baker)
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- Simple mode wall/floor like EgoMap
- Flagging multiple tiles with FX
- Create 'preset' style

Info for the users
The given fans describe only, how the texture is mapped onto them. There is no info about extent and position of the different 'Vrt'-Values. Basically for the floor, the Z- or Up value is zero. Height of walls is Z greater zero, standard about 200. The X- and Y-Values describe the position of the tile. Tile size is 128 by 128 units. Wall height standard about 200.

What users can do about styles
For every fan, give a X, Y and Z position, always in mind, that the left top edge is at X/Y = 0/0.

Documentation
Has somebody the time do define the egobooish style ? Or at least write a short description how to define the positions of thr 'Vtx' Points ?
Example for two faced ground (X/Y/Z, Z always 0):
Vrt: 1 ==> 128, 0, 0
Vrt: 2 ==> 128, 128, 0
Vrt: 3 ==> 0, 128, 0
Vrt: 0 ==> 0, 0, 0
This four points describe the rectangle of a bottom tile.
For the other fans, it's a little bit harder to figure out which is which
:roll:

Any help is appreciated.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Squirrel Knight (Administrator)
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Note that there are three different map editors for Egoboo. Cartman, EgoMap and ModBaker. There is also something like a FrankenEditor that birdsey made, but I think he lost the work progress due a HD crash.

I noticed you have imported a lot from Cartman, but have you checked out the others as well?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:52 am 
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Tome Mimic (Module Baker)
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I have the source of all three editors on my HD, plus the one I created myself. Cartman was the easiest to start from, so I fetched this code first. I'll merge the best things into the new editor and give t a - hopefully - usable interface to work with.

The next problem I have tosolve that the map is drawn 'side-flipped' in the 3D-View. Has something to do with the setup of the frustum.

Questions:
What do you think is the minimal edit functionality needed to make the editor worth a beta test ?

Side note
Arakon had a lot of interesting ideas which I think are worth to make a look into. ll'l come up with some of my own, too, as soon as the editor basically works.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:34 am 
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Squirrel Knight (Administrator)
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Another thing to notice: Arakon put a lot of effort into a Random Map generator, while that can be fun, it is more like a gimmick. If I plan to create a map, I make it manually and not randomly. Random maps are more useful as a game feature instead of a map editor feature in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Tome Mimic (Module Baker)
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Random map
This is something for a later stage, if any.

Generation of Fan-Sizes
I figured it out and think i can do something 'preset' easily. Floor positions are no problem. Just have to add some usable Z-Values.

Technical ideas for extensions
Extend the support for commands of 'fan-only' by 'triangle strip. Much easier e.g for descrition of a stair or a multi-faced wall. Easy to add to the engine too, I think. But that's something for a later stage, too.

Documentation
Planned. Could need some help later to write it in a way that it's easy to understand for non-technical readers.

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Last edited by bitnapper on Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
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Zefz wrote:
Random maps are more useful as a game feature instead of a map editor feature in my opinion.


I think that they are best as a game feature that can be adjusted in the editor... )I think that we should maybe have kind of a code syntax for random maps, like Clonk has. :teach:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Grub Bug (Rookie)
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Quote:
octagon wrote:

I think that they are best as a game feature that can be adjusted in the editor... )I think that we should maybe have kind of a code syntax for random maps, like Clonk has. Teaching words of wisdom


Yeah could be cool for a random maps but maybe not for the editor.[/quote]

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 Post subject: Work done
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:51 pm 
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Tome Mimic (Module Baker)
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Work done
Nearly all info windows

Next work
- Display fan types for test of 'draw mode'
- Generate empty maps
- Simple 'draw' mode for walls and bottom
- Tool for choosing textures
- Write dow the default z-extents of the fans

So, a lot of code to write with so little visible result :roll: *sigh*

If only someone could figure out for me this Z-Extents for the wall fans...

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