Mercenaries and merchants

Have an idea or great plots for Egoboo? Post them here!

Moderator: Developers

Post Reply
Dark
Tranch (Novice)
Tranch (Novice)
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:05 pm

Mercenaries and merchants

Post by Dark »

I am currently still working on my gnomish steam walker.
Idea that octagon suggested was having items that could summon walker in a module and thats going along pretty nicely.

Summoning walkers brought me another idea though - mercenary contracts.
In towns there would be mercenary guilds (shops) where you could purchase mercenary contracts.
When used during a module the contract would summon an AI ally for you.
There could be various different contracts, e.g.:

Torchbearer contract - summons adventurer with a torch.
Soldier contract - summons soldier with shield and sword.
Healer contract - summons a healer with a mace.
Rogue contract - summons a rouge with a dagger who disarms traps and opens chests for you.
All these would be fairly expensive. Basically getting a contract would cost you more or less half the money you could get in a difficult module.


If mercenary guilds were implemented there could be a new character class - merchant.
Merchant would be very weak in combat and without any magic abilities. There would also be only few smallest weapons that he could use.
His main skills would work with money and items, e.g.
- Identify items.
- Barter - sell most items (weapons, books, scrolls, potions, etc.) for 75%-100% their value (exact % depending on intelligence).
- Investment - bonus gold and expirience after clearing every module (exact amount depending on wisdom and relatively to module difficulty).
- Jewelcrafting - transforming gems into valueable jewelery or random accessory with stat bonus or chance for magic effect (depending on intelligence).
- Escort Hiring - reduces cost of mercenary contracts to 80%-50% (exact % depending on wisdom).
- Hidden Pockets - reduces gold dropped on death by 25-75% (exact % depending on dexterity).
- Insurance - very small gold income on death (exact amount depending on strength).
Image
User avatar
octagon
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by octagon »

Mercenary contracts could end easily up overpowered, underwhelming, or very situational, but they sound incredibly fun to use.
The merchant idea is pretty amazing. I like it if traditionally noncombat-oriented classes appear in games like Egoboo, and with the importance that items have in this game, it could work really well.

Additionally, there could be an item for summoning a beast of burden that picks up items for you, and whose inventory could possibly be managed like an expansion of yours. After the module where you used it is finished, the items it carried could be found in a chest in Zippy Village.
User avatar
woodmouse
Monolich (Senior Member)
Monolich (Senior Member)
Posts: 4586
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:53 pm
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by woodmouse »

Would be awesome. 8)
Once upon a time, when unicorns roamed the earth...
Dark
Tranch (Novice)
Tranch (Novice)
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by Dark »

I dont think mercenaries would be that difficult to balance.
There are many possible ways including contract price or summoned character level, stats and functions.

Merchant could be pretty unique and limited inventory is also a factor here.
His goal would be to identify and collect the most valueable items which he can later sell in town.
With that in mind hed best focus on one-time use items like potions, scrolls or contracts as those would leave him an empty item slot after use.
And for him empty items slots when finishing module mean another valueable thing to take along and sell.

The beast sounds like a nice idea though Id preffer it to have very limited item storage. Maybe 2-3 slots or so.
It would be pretty cool if the beast was also a mount. Nothing very usefull but would kinda feel cool if you could ride on it.
Image
User avatar
Maxaxle
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Posts: 4035
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:16 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by Maxaxle »

1. What if there was a set limit on how many mercenaries you could use at a given time?
2. As for "summoning", I suppose it would make sense if they simply entered the module from its normal entrance, as opposed to being poofed in.
2.a. You mentioned a "Gnomish Steam Walker"? How would this be "summoned"? Wouldn't it make more sense for the player to carry around a disassembled 'Walker or have it delivered in the same way that mercenaries would enter?
3. To prevent players killing mercenaries for their gear, maybe the price of a given mercenary contract would go up in price if the one the player is employing dies?
3.a. Also, what if the gear and money being carried by any given merc. is outvalued by the expense of the contract?
3.b. Those with cheaper contracts would be liable to running away if hurt badly; maybe a merc. Healer would be useful.
3.c. If a merc. was attacked by the player, the player would be given a warning. After being hurt a few times (3-5 health bars), the merc in question would turn on the player.
4. Perhaps the contract could have a specified number of modules that they would follow the player through, wiath the exception of Zippy Village or Bishopia (they would either be prevented from spawning, or it wouldn't count on their contract).
"Failing to plan is planning to fail."
Bug me if you want to play a game.
User avatar
octagon
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by octagon »

Maxaxle wrote:1. What if there was a set limit on how many mercenaries you could use at a given time?
2. As for "summoning", I suppose it would make sense if they simply entered the module from its normal entrance, as opposed to being poofed in.
2.a. You mentioned a "Gnomish Steam Walker"? How would this be "summoned"? Wouldn't it make more sense for the player to carry around a disassembled 'Walker or have it delivered in the same way that mercenaries would enter?
3. To prevent players killing mercenaries for their gear, maybe the price of a given mercenary contract would go up in price if the one the player is employing dies?
3.a. Also, what if the gear and money being carried by any given merc. is outvalued by the expense of the contract?
3.b. Those with cheaper contracts would be liable to running away if hurt badly; maybe a merc. Healer would be useful.
3.c. If a merc. was attacked by the player, the player would be given a warning. After being hurt a few times (3-5 health bars), the merc in question would turn on the player.
How about just removing more valuable mercenary equipment, like spellbooks and amulets, on the mercenaries' death?
I'd assume most of them would be fighting with sword and shield or their class equivalent thereof anyway, and their "quality" would be mainly dependent on their stats, not their weapons - kind of like the Benemo Cave guys who can slaughter low-level characters even though they're wielding ordinary equipment.

Some of the more expensive mercenaries should possess regeneration, and there should be some way to direct them, so they don't aggravate an aggravating amount of monsters or suicide by walking into lava... I suppose that using an unarmed "attack" in their direction (which should be targetable in a manner similar to spells like Unlock) to toggle their AI mode (guard/follow/deploy) could work, but it would be more than a little wonky to use if there's more than two modes.

Anyway, the mention of mercenaries gave me another idea. How about permanently recruitable allies that (optionally) accompany you in every module? There should be only a few of them available in the entire game, except for merchants and certain hero classes (how about building your own pirate crew? :P), and they shouldn't be too powerful, resilient but weak, mainly serving as a diversion so you can take on enemies one at a time, offering support fire or alerting you, but I imagine having jRPG-like party members in Egoboo to be a lot of fun, and it could nicely flesh out the world if they would comment certain events or share their wisdom about secrets and enemy weaknesses.
User avatar
Maxaxle
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Posts: 4035
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:16 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by Maxaxle »

1. As for removing merc. equipment, although it's not a bad idea, it would make more sense if it was somehow locked to the respective mercenaries, or if it was scripted to disappear from the bodies on death (with the idea that it teleports out of the area to prevent the player from stealing it; this should be mentioned somewhere).
2. The whole commanding-through-unarmed seems like a good idea, but yeah, it could get really clunky really fast, especially in combat. If only we could use F1-F4, or F5-F8...
2.a. Bumping into merc.s causes random comments, perhaps stuff like "Don't bother stealing my sword, it's enchanted to teleport away if stolen." (see item 1), or "What now, boss?". Different types of merc.s would have different things to say (see point 4).
3. I was thinking that merc.s would be categorized somehow, with each merc. having a specific set of abilities, like "short-range" (broadsword/shield), "medium-range" (spear/shield, xbow/shield, or maybe even pistol/spear), "long-range (cinqueta/longbow or maybe even gonne/pistol; an xbow/sword would not be out of the question, though), "medic" (mace/shield, maybe sword/shield), "magic" (derp), "stealth" (self-explanatory), maybe even G'nomish Pilot (Walker pilot).
4. Each merc. should have a distinct alignment or personality. Why? Because some would be greedy (see point A), some would be helpful (see point B), some would be useful (see point C), some would be in it for the GLORY OF BATTLE (see point D), and others would be in it for other reasons.*
4.a. GREED would be a powerful motivator for a lot of merc.s. Simply having an eye for the expensive loot could be a useful asset when trying to raid a dungeon, however the greediest merc.s would also be quite likely to take said expensive stuff for themselves. Average mood of an entrely greedy merc: "They're dead, we won. Can I get paid now?"
4.b. HELPFULNESS would be the trait of attempting to assist the player at any cost, however the path to heck is paved with good intentions. Helpful merc.s are more likely to make newbish mistakes (like attacking things with the wrong sort of weapon), however they will turn over most equipment if you ask nicely (read: bump them while not in battle), regardless of value, and tend to carry around Scrolls of Unkurse (or whatever the term is) to prevent unintentional welding. Average mood of an entirely helpful merc: "Here, I found a map for you! And I found a...*uses Scroll of Identify on generic sword*...boring regular sword. Darn."
4.c. USEFULNESS would be the trait of being in-the-know. G'nomish readers, trap finders, Mimic detectors and experts of most sorts would fall under this category. Very likely to carry extra potions, along with a spare weapon or two. Average mood of an entirely useful merc: "Remember, Evil things take damage from Good things, and vice-versa. Also, always keep a Healer at your side, incase you run into the undead or just got a nasty paper cut."
4.d. Seeking the GLORY OF BATTLE would be fairly self-explanatory. Most under this category would be inexperienced with traps and G'nomish, however the more experienced glory-seekers would be familiar at worst with most weapons, and could wield even the heaviest warhammer in one hand and the smallest of knives in the other. These merc.s would be likely to dash past chests full of loot and barely-hidden perils of all sorts to fight larger creatures and musclebound humanoids, rendering them useful only for advice on and the practical application of most weapons. Average mood of an entirely glory-seeking merc: "Bring 'em on! Use a spear, they've only got maces!"
5. Hired merc.s could be taken to a "Makeshift Market" module, where each merc. you hired recently would sell stuff to you, or at least try to. Greedier merc.s would overprice stuff, but would have much fancier stuff to begin with, whereas helpful merc.s would underprice stuff, with the cost of having only mid- and lower-level stuff. Useful merc.s would sell a bit of everything, but mostly practical and useful stuff, nothing too weak or Too Awesome To Use, plus would give tips every so often.

*Needs moar categories. Keep in mind that each merc. would have a blend of the different categories. In terms of AI scripting...(each category would be on a scale of 0 to 100)

Code: Select all

GREED affects how likely it is that a merc. will loot chests and take some for himself/herself. Might even poison or rob the player if the player is holding a lot of fancy stuff and this value is 90 or higher. Effectiveness of looting and identification of valuables depends on experience and USEFUL(NESS). 
HELPFUL(NESS) affects how likely it is that a merc. will turn over loot in addition to things they think will help. The amount of good they successfully do depends on their experience level and USEFUL(NESS). Merc.s with helpfulness of 50 will attempt to help from time to time, whereas merc.s with helpfulness of 100 and a lot of experience will actively medicate the player correctly (like giving the player a health potion when the player is injured or poisoned, or giving the player a mana potion when needed). Helpful merc.s tend to protect the player and other merc.s.  
USEFUL(NESS) affects how likely it is that a merc. will point out/disarm traps, read G'nomish (if not already a G'nome), and dispense knowledge and analyses. Intertwined with experience, and positively affects all other traits. Affects the "preparedness" of the merc. in question (for example, a merc. that is headed into the Sand Palace will either learn a bit of G'nomish or bring a G'nomish friend to help, and will bring a good CRUSH weapon to kill Tranches with).
GLORYSEEKER affects how likely it is that a merc. will seek out and kill enemies. Affected by experience and USEFUL(NESS), and affects damage taken and inflicted. Very useful against bosses, but tends to take a high-and-mighty approach to most fights, and merc.s with little HELPFUL(NESS) or USEFUL(NESS) but loads of GLORYSEEKER will not defend or help the player at all, however they will shrug off more friendly fire and call for help less.
Experience as we currently know it is also the "experience" I refer to multiple times.
"Failing to plan is planning to fail."
Bug me if you want to play a game.
User avatar
octagon
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by octagon »

Awesome write-up. :)
Randomly getting a greedy mercenary could horribly suck, but you would probably notice it before any serious harm is done, and hey, you can always reload.
User avatar
Maxaxle
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Darkshine Knight (Extremist fanatic)
Posts: 4035
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:16 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by Maxaxle »

octagon wrote:Awesome write-up. :)
Randomly getting a greedy mercenary could horribly suck, but you would probably notice it before any serious harm is done, and hey, you can always reload.
Maybe you can examine each merc. for specific stats? Also, I was thinking that there should be a money-free way to convince greedy mercenaries to give up their stuff. Maybe just having multiple other merc.s with much lower greed ratings would help, maybe you could use a combination of INT, WIS, and STR to convince a merc. to let you rifle through their stuff.
"Failing to plan is planning to fail."
Bug me if you want to play a game.
Dark
Tranch (Novice)
Tranch (Novice)
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: Mercenaries and merchants

Post by Dark »

I dont see a problem with letting player kill mercenary for their gear.
If you add to it the AI part which makes them turn against you if you damage them too much I think that would be a pretty cool mechanic.
I can perfectly imagine a hero going out to a dungeon with hired mercenary but the expedition later turns into killing over valueable treasures. Its cool and realistic.
Perhaps to make it harder betraying your mercenaries they would get stronger once turned against you - get a stats increase and/or being healed by some amount of points.
That would give player a choice. If mercenary picked the item youd really want to get for yourself you can either let it go or try killing him loosing an ally or dying yourself.
Perhaps when an AI turns against you and you die while he stays alive (which is what would happen as he defeats you) they would disappear from module with all their items (run away with "your" loot).

The mercenary personality sounds like a very cool idea.
Perhaps the merchant would get a skill letting him "identify" mercenary contracts.
He would be able to tell what kind of mercenary it hires to avoid the bad guys and only hire best companions.
For all other classes hiring would always be a risk with character of the mercenary.
Image
Post Reply