Zombi Starter much too hard?

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octagon
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Zombi Starter much too hard?

Post by octagon »

I think that the Zombi Starter should be much easier. The necromancer always dies shortly after my Zombi being killed by the elder cleric's guards. I think that the Elder's hitpoints and Wisdom are grossly exaggerated... since he isn't even the final boss, he should have 14-16 lifepoints and a wisdom about 25. And the Zombi should respawn directly in front of the final room's door when he has already opened it, because that is his only chance to be a meat shield for the necro. I've already tried about 20 times to finish the module and the necromancer always killed by the Cleric or his knights. I tried everything - even spamming missiles with the wand before really entering the room. It just didn't work...
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Post by Cimeries »

I think this module is meant to be Nintendo Hard. It is a secret bonus character, after all.
:wink:
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Post by Zefz »

Hmm. I find either this module is hard, or it is all to easy! It depends on how many Zombis you have when you enter the room I guess. You could be all alone or with a whole horde!
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octagon
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Post by octagon »

I always try to gather as many dumb zombis from dead end rooms as possible and am always surrounded by at least 10 of them, but it's still very hard because the Elder Cleric is always focusing on the Necromancer and he spams Holy Bolt until the necromancer bites the dust. It's almost impossible to protect him from being hit by the holy bolt...
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Post by bgbirdsey »

So strategy wins the day, again!
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Post by Crispy »

Yup, strategy wins the day, again. I can't remember if i have ever played the zombi starter but today while watching my bro playing it we noticed that it's a good idea to grab the key to the final boss room before the necromancer tells to get the key. Rush quickly to the boss room and lure those two guards out carefully avoiding possible holy bolts. after you have ra**d those two with your mates you should probably either go to the final room with your fellow zombies if they are willing to advance or if they wont, then you must go in by yourself and lure the Elder out to a place where most of the zombies are gathered. He will probably use holy bolt so don't go too close. It's good if he wastes his mana trying to hit you with his bolts since he will be out of it when you reach the room where your fellow zombies are waiting for some brains. if you manage to beat the cleric it is possibly a good idea to have a wand that drops from one of the guards earlyer. it's a good idea to try killing him before he wastes all the charges from his wand. feel free to try out if this helps at all :wink:

EDIT: corrected a few typos...
EDIT2: sensored
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octagon
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Post by octagon »

Yes... well... I tried most of this strategies, especially the stuff with luring out the two guards. How can you manage it? Do you just unlock the door and fight them without taking the necromancer with you?
And my problem is not the guards - they have many HP, but the zombis serve as "rotten meat shields" and so the necro isn't bothered by them, but the Cleric always pløps the Zombi's master with Holy Bolts before I can properly beat him up. (Maybe that is the thing called einbozzling?)
Is it normal that each Bolt deals 3-4 damage to him or is it just a problem from before the necro was granted almost immunity to holy? I'm using 2.7.4. (BTW I looked it up in the data.txt, and he has only HDEF 1. Which HDEF does he have in the newer versions? Because I am too [strike]dumb[/strike] ignorant to use the SVN [can pleeeeeeeease someone explain me? :blush:], I will surely have to change it manually.)
BTW: Do you recommend to pick up Scythe and Scimitar? They deal rather low damage and are slow too, so I don't find them useful in any way. Does the Scythe deal extra damage when wielded by a Zombi or what's the point? Or are they just meant to be some more equipment for the other zombs?
[edit]It seems like BBCode is somehow buggy!? The tags I used didn't work.[/edit]
Last edited by octagon on Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Zefz »

These are the necromancers defences in 2.8.0:

Code: Select all

SLASH defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )   :  1  1  1  1
CRUSH defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )   :  1  1  1  1
POKE defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )   :  1  1  1  1
HOLY defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )      :  1  1  1  1
EVIL defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )      :  3  3  3  3
FIRE defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )      :  1  1  1  1
ICE defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )      :  1  1  1  1
ZAP defense shift ( eg. 1 1 1 1 )      :  1  1  1  1


So nothing has changed. I'm thinking I will give the Zombi Starter a try in 2.8.0 to see how difficult it is and whatever bugs were introduced in the last X revisions :P

[edit]Seems it is currently impossible to play due to every Zombi getting stuck in the wall through the new physics bug.[/edit]
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Post by penguinflyer2222 »

octagon wrote:Does the Scythe deal extra damage when wielded by a Zombi or what's the point? Or are they just meant to be some more equipment for the other zombs?

The latter.
......
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Post by Zefz »

Scythes are actually supposed to steal 1 mana each time you hit an enemy with it, but the particle draining code doesn't seem to be implemented yet. I have coded it for 2.8.0
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Post by Crispy »

Yup, it's good if you can fight those guards and the cleric without the necromancer. Try wielding the torch. that way those two guards guarding the cleric will follow more willingly since the torch emits light around you. Torch is also a good weapon in general since it is a mace class weapon (good for hit the mole... or trench) and if i'm correct the torch deals also fire damage (dased on numerous fights with sand troll). also shield in second hand isn't a bad idea. refilling HP through suicide just before the final room is also recommended (by me).

still, as you suggested, the zombie starter might be a bit too tough. not unbeatable though...
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Post by Seanbot »

I is supposed to be a starter, so the aim is to introduce the playing style of the character. If it's too difficult to intuitively complete, then we obviously haven't taught the style of the character properly.
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Post by bgbirdsey »

Seanbot wrote:I is supposed to be a starter, so the aim is to introduce the playing style of the character. If it's too difficult to intuitively complete, then we obviously haven't taught the style of the character properly.


I think you hit the nail on the head here, but I would phrase it differently.

"If it's too difficult to complete intuitively, then you might not be right for that character class."

This is certainly true for the starter levels that have been well crafted, like the wizard, healer, and soldier (good work zefz!). However some (very cool) classes like the Valkyrie do not have a specific role in the game yet, so it is not really possible to demonstrate her "winning strategy" in the starter.
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Post by Cimeries »

bgbirdsey wrote:it is not really possible to demonstrate her "winning strategy" in the starter.

Not that the Zombi has one. He just kills things. Really fast, really well. Hence the bloodbath that is the Zombi starter.
:wink:
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Post by bgbirdsey »

Well, the idea of recruiting the undead to you is the winning strategy, but I don't think that is somehting that Zombor can always do in other modules.

If not, maybe it could be one of his innate abilities? Think of the green zombies in SoulFu. They have poison breath. What if we imported that idea to Egoboo and made is so that anything killed by his poison breath would become a zombie in his army of living dead? The skill could show up at level 5 or something and get better as you progress... like at first the zombies are level 1 no matter what the level of the original monster. Later maybe they are at 1/2 of their original level?
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